Let's Talk UNLV

0:00:00
Alright, welcome to another podcast of Let's Talk UNLV. You with co-host Keith and Renee. Renee, how was your weekend?

0:00:13
So I had a great weekend. I went to Memphis, Tennessee to celebrate one of my good friends who became the 13th President of the Mowen Owen College in Memphis, Tennessee as an HBCU. And we had the gala, we had the luncheon, we also had the inservitude. It was just a stellar occasion. I also got a chance to go to Bill Street and get me some good barbecue at B.B. King's. So just an all-around great weekend. What about you?

0:00:45
Fancy, smancy. I know, I know. Well, that's a departure from your daredevil weekend. So now I have to ask, you're from the Midwest, or you've lived in the Midwest quite a bit. So I know you've had a lot of barbecue different places. So how does, you know, Memphis is one of those cities that, you know, they put a stake in the sand in terms of barbecue. So what's your assessment of the quality of their barbecue compared to other?

0:01:08
You know, it was, it was okay. I wasn't wowed, but I have to say, I would say the best barbecue I've ever had, I have to venture from the Midwest, it was in Texas. Texas, they got to get some good barbecue.

0:01:22
So Texas, what did you have?

0:01:24
Brisket, I also had some rib tips and...

0:01:30
I probably should not be asking that right before lunch.

0:01:33
I probably should not be asking that.

0:01:35
But no, Texas was some good meat. What about you? Well speaking of barbecue, my weekend we had our African-American graduation celebration and student achievement so it was a phenomenal event. You know it was great just having the families back on campus and just being able to recognize the outstanding student achievements and the graduation event of our students so that was phenomenal. And the first time

0:02:01
it was two or three years, right? Yes.

0:02:03
And it was only 19 was the last in person in person that we did. So we get a lot of positive feedback, you know, just always great, you know, seeing people in person, especially people who you not seen in a year, year and a half, you know, in that setting. And just interacting with the parents and the families of the students and just seeing the joy on the students faces, you know, which is, you know, indescribable. And then lastly, speaking of barbecue transitioning, right, we actually had John Muse, one of the local barbecue pit masters here in Vegas. So they catered the event. So, you know, I have my annual exam coming up. Okay. So I probably should not have eaten as much beef as I did over the weekend. You know, so I eat lots of brisket, lots of brisket, lots of Mac and cheese. So with the thing,

0:02:50
You might have to go back for your lab work.

0:02:53
I may have to postpone the lab work, right? But we'll see what my physician recommends after I confess. I have been doing good with chicken and turkey for the last month.

0:03:03
Yeah, yeah.

0:03:04
But anyway, I am glad to have our guest on today. We have Norma Maroon, Dr. Norma Maroon. And then we also have Dr. Christine Clark here. Norm is an assistant professor with the CME program, which is the Cultural Studies, Intentional Education and Multicultural Education program. And they also Dr. Christine Clark is with the department in the Department of Teaching and Learning. She's a professor there. So, Dr. Maroon on just receiving tenure and

0:03:41
being promoted to associate professor starting July 1.

0:03:45
Oh, congratulations. Congratulations. What a milestone.

0:03:49
And then what we'll do, we'll start off this maybe asking each of you to just share a little bit about your journey into your current role at UNLV. And we'll start with Dr. Maroon.

0:04:01
All right, well thank you for that. My journey. I would like to start with my journey started in El Paso, Texas, in Juarez, the border. I think I was seven years old when my mother and I I immigrated to this country. We were undocumented and we had nothing with us, just a dream, right? And that dream was to obtain an education. I didn't know how I was gonna get there. I didn't know what it was gonna take to get there, but the support and love of my family and my community continued to nourish me and inspire me. And so I just knew that education was what I always wanted to pursue. So, long story short, I ended up at San Jose State for my bachelor's degree and University of Utah for my master's, PhD at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign and then went on to postdoc at Duke University and when I was on the job market, I really wanted to work in a place where I could connect with students, with students of color, with first-generation students, and I found the perfect place, UNLV. It's been a dream come true to teach at UNLV, but to also be back in my ancestral land,

0:05:37
Aztlan.

0:05:38
Dr. Clark. Sure I was born in Detroit and I grew up in Cleveland. I'm from a white middle-class family. I think that my parents also like Norma, my parents inspired me to pursue education and I think I'm sort of an accidental teacher. I didn't necessarily see myself becoming a teacher, but one of the mentors that I had, Dr. George Smith, really inspired me to get some full-time teaching experience because he felt that it limited him and his career, that he couldn't have it, and I sort of fell in love with it. And that started my trajectory in higher education. Prior to that, I had worked in community-based mental health primarily and some community-based education and been an activist around educational and diversity, inclusion, equity, and justice issues. And I think I just found, I found through teaching in higher education, I found a way to equity and justice. And I did that through sort of both campus-wide equity and diversity roles, and then also teaching in multicultural education in teacher education roles. And so I've always had like sort of one foot in both roles. And I'm sort of a typical academic nomad. I started my higher ed career at a community college in Worcester, Massachusetts called Quinn-Singaman. And there I worked with faculty primarily on multicultural curriculum transformation. And then I went to New Mexico State as faculty and teacher prep focused on multicultural education. And then from there I went to the University of Cincinnati and coordinated an urban educational leadership program. And from there to the University of Maryland in what we would call today like a chief diversity officer position, but I also had appointments in academic departments and so ran an academic program through that office. And then that landed me at UNLV for very similar reasons to Norma. I saw an opportunity to be able to do both the multicultural teacher education work and campus-wide equity and diversity work at an institution that was on the rise in a lot of different ways. And I was also attracted to the student population, first-generation students that were highly and complexly diverse, and an opportunity to, again, continue to live my commitment to equity and justice in higher education.

0:08:23
So talk to us about multicultural education.

0:08:25
What does that mean and specifically how is multicultural education rooted in the College of Education at UNLV?

0:08:31
Sure, I can talk a little bit about how multicultural education was established as a content area in the College of Education in the department of what was called curriculum and instruction and is now teaching and learning. probably about 25 years ago by Dr. Porter L. Troutman, who was, I believe, the second and second longest serving African American professor and the second African American professor at UNLV to achieve tenure and full professor. He started a multicultural master's program that when I transitioned from the administration at UNLV back to the department, department. I ended up inheriting that program when he retired and that's the program that Dr. Maroon and I coordinate, co-coordinate, and that we've grown into not just two master's programs, two doctoral programs, an MS to PhD, and then two graduate certificate programs, and then also a concurrent PhD and JD program that all focus on critical multicultural education. Multicultural education is a discipline, grew out of African American studies, which a lot of people don't know. Its roots are in ethnic studies. It has unfortunately in some ways been pulled that sort of de-emphasize its commitment to improve educational outcomes for students of color by addressing systemic racism in K-12 and higher education. And so I think a lot of the work that we do is to now criticalize it and reconnect it to its ethnic studies roots, so it can do the work that it was established by many of the people who we read and or even were trained by the people who founded the discipline and have been the champions of it for many, many, many years.

0:10:34
Yeah, and I'll just add that, you know, we owe a lot of the work of multicultural education just to add to black educators, in particular the work of Dr. Carter G. Woodson. He helped establish Black History Month. You know, of course, he wanted it to be all year round, not just one month, but really it's the work of black educators in this country that have pushed for multicultural education and that work is never, like my colleague was mentioning, it's never acknowledged that it's the labor of black educators who do challenge our Eurocentric and Nell-centric curriculum that is still prevalent in our K-12 and higher ed schools.

0:11:24
And so how many students are in your program and what are some of the topics that you cover throughout the course of a year?

0:11:36
That's a big question. I think we have currently about 30 doctoral students and maybe 15 master's students that we are solely or primarily responsible for in our programs right now. It doesn't sound like a lot on the master's side, but it's a very large number on the doctoral student side. We teach, I think, probably somewhere around 15 or 16 courses that we offer through our program. They're not all courses that we teach because we're fortunate to have other colleagues that have joined us as affiliates to our program. So we teach courses in multicultural education, social justice education, cultural studies in education, multicultural curriculum transformation, multicultural organizational development, intersectional analysis and multicultural ed, the analysis of the school-to-prison pipeline, restorative justice practices in schools and communities, and that course was designed and is being taught by Dr. Tanya Walls, who's also the founding, the founder of Code Switch, a program that's community based that focuses on restorative justice for girls of color. And then we also have a course on teaching about the Latina, Latino experiences in education, critical multicultural education, theory and research in multicultural ed, and then intergroup

0:13:16
dialogue facilitation. Wow, so we're joined by one of our fabulous student leaders, Karen John Charles. She sits on the Minority Service Student Council and works with the intersection and she's also helping out this summer as an intern to keep the Minority Service Student Council afloat and to provide constantly for fall programming. And so she's really, really interested in this topic and wanted to maybe pose a question to the two of you.

0:13:45
Karen?

0:13:46
Oh yeah, my question was, how do you believe COVID and the pandemic has impacted marginalized and minority students?

0:13:55
It's a great question.

0:13:55
Thank you for that.

0:13:56
It's not actually something that we've studied, but it is something that based on the experiences of our students, some of whom are CCSD teachers, we feel like we can maybe provide some insights on based on that. Norma, you want to go ahead?

0:14:15
Yeah. I think it's important to acknowledge that the transition from schooling into the home, right, so students who were close to a year and a half to two years doing you know schooling at home and when they transition into back into the school setting it was pretty much abrupt and there was no outlet for students and teachers to process their emotions and feelings right so you know we were going through a global pandemic sense of it and, you know, especially in the school district with a high percentage of students of color. And again, if you look at federal, state, and local data, that data shows that people of color experience a disproportionate burden of COVID infections and deaths, right? So thoughts, to breathe. There was also no space to reconnect with their peers, right? They were growing up connected virtually and so all of a sudden they were placed back in the classroom and it's almost like they were strangers, right? Because they didn't know what they had experienced and it was, you know, back to the back to the lessons, back to the standardized testing, right? And again, not taking the time or creating a space for both students and educators to process those emotions and feelings.

0:15:53
And then I know

0:15:55
that, you know, So, specific to Southern Nevada, Clark County, we know there are a lot of challenges in the K-12 system. Could you talk a little bit about, from your perspective and your expertise, how you are supporting some of the challenges faced by Clark County to maybe attract teachers, have more diverse teachers, maybe retention, having teachers who come, having students that come to your program that go into teaching to be better prepared to address some of these challenges that they face in the classrooms?

0:16:33
Sure. We've had a few grant projects that have focused on the benefits of diversifying the teacher profession. And so I think we wanted to start with a few of the stats that sort of support why it's important to diversify the teaching profession and then go from there.

0:16:54
Yeah, so I think first just acknowledging like why do we even need a diverse teaching workforce, right? Like what are those benefits? And so some of the literature has outlined several benefits, but I just want to discuss three of them. One, teachers of color serve as important role models for students of color as well as their white students, right? So when students, especially students of color, see another teacher of color, they're more likely to pursue teaching or just to pursue other careers. Second, diverse teachers are more likely to understand the experiences of students of color because they have had similar experiences. You know, they, especially if they, if you have a teacher workforce that actually graduated from CCSC, right, they understand those challenges where someone like myself, didn't go to school here, might not fully understand those, but I do understand the experiences of what it means to be placed as an emergent bilingual, what it means to grow up undocumented, to grow up in a mixed-studies household, to live in a low-income household. So I understand those challenges, but not just the challenges, but the strengths that I also bring with me into school so a teacher of color can recognize those assets, those strengths that I bring into the school setting. And then third, diverse teachers tend to also hold high academic expectations for students of color as well as white working class students. And I think the most powerful example, right? They weren't just preparing their students for just a job, no. They were preparing their students to become doctors and scientists. And so there's a long history, right, that demonstrates that having a diverse teacher workforce is highly critical, and especially given our current student demographics. Dr. Maroon, I'm so glad you said that because I serve as the advisor for the Minority Service Institution Student Council, and I know Karen, they're like, Dr. Watson, why are you so hard on us? Dr. Watson, why we can't get more extensions? Dr. Watson, why do you got to be, you know, like, tracking the programming money, and why are you asking for SMART goals? Well, see, Karen, you see? You heard it.

0:19:35
It's research peer review. I like this.

0:19:37
I'm road miling.

0:19:38
I'm road miling.

0:19:39
Okay.

0:19:40
All right.

0:19:41
I hear you.

0:19:42
But thank you so much. And Dr. Clark, thank you for giving us the extensive list of courses that are taught at UNLV. But you mainly highlighted courses that are taught at the master's level and doctoral

0:19:46
level.

0:19:47
And oftentimes we hear from our undergraduates that they're not getting the same education that they're getting. And so we're going to be looking at that. And we're going to be looking at the different courses that are taught at the master's level.

0:19:51
And we're going to be looking at the different courses that are taught at the doctoral level.

0:19:52
And we're going to be looking at the different courses that are taught at the master's level. And we're going to be looking at the different courses that are taught at the doctoral level. And we're going to be looking at the different courses that are taught at the master's level. And we're going to be looking at the different courses that are taught at the doctoral level. And we're going to be looking at the different courses that are taught at the master's level. And we're going to be looking at the different courses that are taught at the doctoral level. And we're going to be looking at the different courses that are taught at the master's level. And we're going to be looking at the different courses that are taught at the doctoral level. And we're going to be looking at the different courses that are taught at the master's level. And we're going to be looking at the different courses that are taught at the doctoral level. And we're going to be looking at the different courses that are taught at the master's level and doctoral level. And oftentimes we hear from our undergraduate students, you know, when are these kinds of robust course offerings going to be offered for, you know, students so they understand the experiences of students of color, especially at a minority-serving institution. Can you talk about maybe the need to have that kind of pedagogy to be given to even our undergraduate students? What a great question. Thank you for that.

0:20:31
So we could not agree more and some of the work that we've done is in is designed to sort of amplify the opportunities for students at the undergraduate level to have these experiences. First I should mention that undergrads can apply for a waiver to take graduate courses, but that's not a solution. That's an interim kind of like a like a stepping stone, but that's not a solution. I do want to highlight the fact that we partner quite a bit with the Interdisciplinary Gender and Ethnic Studies Department and that through the Ethnic Studies courses in that department and Women's Studies courses that a lot of the content area that we teach at the master's and doc level is also taught there, which is why a number of their undergrad students become our master's students, and why lots of our doctoral students become part-time instructors over there for them. And I just want to highlight the, just going back to what we said about the history of multicultural education, that ethnic studies is really critical, not just to the, like sort of the neoliberal or sort of like the, you know, the grades or job success or earning potential success of students of color, but also to their mental and emotional well-being, to their sense of connection to an intellectual tradition that goes back thousands of years in many cases, and to an understanding of who they are and where they come from, and to bring that understanding to the current day, to be able to sit strong in who they are and where they came from and the contributions that their groups have made to everything that we take for granted in our society today and often falsely attribute to white people or people of European ancestry. And so with that sort of as a backdrop, some of the things that we're also hoping to work this semester with IGES to develop like a certificate that might be half undergrad, half grad certificate that would focus on recruiting students of color into teaching by creating an ethnic studies endorsement. We believe that ethnic studies should be pulled out of social studies as an endorsement because learning to teach social studies is not enough to be able to teach ethnic studies. And we believe that if we created an ethnic studies endorsement at the state level, that this will inspire more students of color to go into teaching. So we're thinking about starting with a course that would just focus on the importance of ethnic studies in teacher prep, and then building from there into a certificate program and then go from there. I mean, ideally it would be great and it's also a thing at other colleges where some universities now have ethnic studies embedded in teacher education. And I think that through interdisciplinary partnerships with the College of Liberal Arts and the College of Education and our department and IGES, we can get to something like that and that would really, I think we believe, be transformative. And so I would also ask a follow-up question.

0:23:41
Since you've already said there's some limitations right now with the current setup, are there ways that student affairs, since both Keith and I are in that line of work, that we can provide opportunities until a more robust program is in place to, I guess, lessen the gap and create more opportunities for ethnic studies to be centered in the undergraduate student experience?

0:24:07
I would just say that there's Asian and Asian American studies, Black and diaspora studies, and Latinx studies. Those program areas offer a lot of courses for undergrads. There's an introduction to the Asian American Studies course. And so those courses, I feel like they're not, they're there, but I think the, specifically IGS and ethnic studies, I feel like they probably, they need more support, more resources in order to provide more recruitment or just getting students informed and interested in the courses that they do have to offer. So I think our colleagues in IGS are doing an amazing work and I think that work is oftentimes undervalued.

0:25:06
100% agree and I think if it didn't come through in my earlier response, I think that one of the things that we can all do is to work with the institution to identify more resources to support the further growth and development of IGES, especially ethnic studies and women's studies.

0:25:27
And then in this work that you've been doing since you've been with the CME program, what are you most proud of?

0:25:35
Ooh, that's a tough question. I guess for me I'm most proud of the fact that we've been able to grow the program including by hiring people like Dr. Norma Maroon to join the faculty. For a long time it was you know just a faculty of one with Dr. Troutman and then with me and so now for the last, since 2016, there's been two of us, and we just are hiring two new colleagues, Dr. Daniel Mideres and Dr. Marla Goins. And so, we're excited about being able to diversify our faculty and just to have more faculty to support our students. So, I feel like that's a huge accomplishment, just because it's very difficult to get lines in higher education, it's also usually difficult to get lines to support program areas like ours and ethnic studies. And so that feels like a huge accomplishment. And we really appreciate Dean Hayes and the College of Education and our provost, Dr. Heavey, and the president, Dr. Whitfield, for providing funding for us in those regards. So I think, to me, that feels like our biggest success as a

0:26:53
program. Norma, I don't know if you want to add? Well, what I would maybe pivot and ask Norma, if you could maybe share what are some of the current challenges or what are the highest priority next steps or to-dos for the CME program? One thing

0:27:10
that I'm really excited for one of our colleagues is she has the knowledge and expertise to create a course on sort of teaching experiences of African Americans in education. And so I think for me, like, I just want to continue to build critical courses that are grounded in the experiences of our students, but are that are also critical in understanding the current sociopolitical moment that we are currently facing, right? And so, you know, for example, like, you know, the banning of CRT, I created and teach the only course, I think the law school also teaches a course on critical race theory, but mine is focused on critical race during education. And so, you know, bringing these courses is really exciting, but it's also, as a person of color, as a woman of color in academia that sort of makes you a target as well. So it's you know it's exciting work but it's also a bit scary especially the last couple of

0:28:26
days how communities of color have been victims of domestic terrorism. I think

0:28:42
it's great that we're doing this

0:28:28
Dr. Clark, we'll give you the last word of the podcast. And is there anything that you would have wished we asked that we didn't ask? Or anything that you would like to share with the listeners about this topic?

0:28:40
Well, I think we would just want folks to know that we are, we welcome folks with open arms. We are always excited to welcome more students into our academic community. We learn with and from our students in order to get better and in order to become more critical scholars, to be able to situate their experiences in the work that we do in more meaningful and effective ways their educational success moving forward and to continuing to build campus-based collaborations like the one we have with the Center for Academic Enrichment and Outreach and with the Clark County School District. It's really true that teamwork makes the dream work and that we're in this together and so we just look forward to the opportunity to continue to grow and thrive and to serve

0:29:34
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Transcribed with Cockatoo